Rabbit Web Discussion Board

Hi all...

I adopted two rabbits from the SPCA last week and need some advice from you bunny experts! I have a nice hutch for the rabbits (kept in a barn, so it is protected from the elements) with a plastic grid floor set on top of a wire mesh; their droppings are funneled out of the bottom of the hutch into two plastic buckets. I\'ve been handling the bunnies daily - they were a bit fearful at first, as they were found dumped along a country road, but they\'re getting calmer. I am putting them outside in a 24\" high, 16\' perimeter exercise pen so they can hop about & graze for an hour or two per day (I sit with them & enjoy watching their delight at being in the pasture). I always thought rabbits were shy, timid creatures but these guys are as curious as any cat I\'ve ever owned.

I have a few questions which I didn\'t see answered in the two rabbit books I studied before getting my new pets:

1) I know rabbits need to chew. I have a lot of wood on my property. I assume pine trees would be a bad choice for gnawing. How about twigs/branches from Silver Maple, Norway Maple, Black Walnut, Staghorn Sumac, Lilac Bushes, Apple, Cherry, Pear, or Mimosa trees or Concord Grape Vines. It seems like plants which bear fruit would be \"safe\", but I realize rabbits don\'t have the same physiology that humans do. I think I read in one of the books that one should NOT give fruit wood, but it offered no reason (too high in sugars perhaps?); think it also said rabbits would not chew dead twigs, yet I know they\'re notorious for chewing on wooden hutches. Any advice would be welcome.

2) The \"X-pen\" I\'ve been using to let the buns play in is actually meant for confining my dogs in the house when we\'re having incontinence issues. Since it\'s a nuisance to haul it in & out daily, I want to get two new X-pens which I can keep in the barn for the rabbits. I\'ll connect them together to give the rabbits a play area with a perimeter of 32\'. I\'m wondering if I should get something taller than 24\"? The little guy appears to be a \"mini-lop\", the other bun is of indeterminate breed (to me), I don\'t know how big either rabbit will eventually become (they may or may not be full grown now---this is the fun of adopting rescue pets!). When they stand up on their tippy-toes against the pen now, they stretch up to about 18\" high. How likely are they to try to hop out? Will giving them a bigger pen make them even more likely to attempt a \"jailbreak\" since they\'ll have more room for a \"running start\"?

3) Any advice on a product to spray in the hutch to clean & deodorize that doesn\'t need to be rinsed out, yet won\'t harm the rabbits? I\'ve seen 10% bleach recommended for cleaning, but it needs to be rinsed out. And wood doesn\'t rinse well the way a metal cage would. I don\'t have running water in the barn (yet), nor easy access to a hose there, so adequately rinsing after using bleach may be a problem. What about white vinegar? I know it chemically neutralizes ammonia & works great at deodorizing cat litter pans. Will it hurt rabbits?

That\'s all for now, but I\'m sure I\'ll be tapping the rabbitweb\'s members for their expertise & insight frequently in the coming weeks. Thanks for any advice you can offer!

joy

Joy:

Your big \"Play Pen\" sounds like a lot of fun for your rabbits!

Apple wood is fine for your bunnies to chew. Also willow. The following woods should be avoided: cherry, peach, apricot, plum and redwood. These can proove poisonous. I would think Maple would be alright as well as Walnut and grape vines, but I just am not as certain about those.

You know, I am of the school that says, \"Better safe than sorry.\" Though 24\" should be a safe height, I have known a few \"climbers\" in my day. My niece\'s pet rabbit would hop up on to her bed with ease (then proceed to throw the cat off onto the floor).

An EXCELLENT disinfectant that DOES NOT require rinsing, is Vanodine. Great stuff! You can get it from http://www.barbibrownsbunnies.com/fam30.htm Also, if your interested in natural pet remedies and preventatives, you can check out the Rabbit Medicine Chest. I have a link to them from my website: http://www.zodiacsatins.com (Just click on the \'Links\' page.)

Good luck. Sounds like you\'re having fun!

Charlcie Gill
Zodiac Rabbitry
Astoria, OR
http://www.zodiacsatins.com

Thanks for the advice, Charlcie. Now that I think about it, I know that peach & apricot pits are poisonous (aren\'t they the source of the controversial toxic Mexcian cancer \"treatment\" Laetrile? ) I guess it stands to reason that the wood might have some unsafe compounds in it as well. I don\'t have any willow growing, but I do have an ugly apple tree that can stand to be pruned :-) .

I will definitely check out the two links you posted. Thanks!

joy

Some of the fruit wood is concidered poisonous because the bark contains trace amounts of cyanide. I gave my rabbits Plum wood for a long time before I read that it is poisonous, and it never hurt them. I no longer offer it to them. It is one of those things that people don\'t agree on if it is alright or not. I have seen Plum wood recomended on a web site before. Never give a rabbit Almonds because they contain cyanide, but trace amounts of cyanide acutually help the digestive system in people! My rabbits also like wood from Lilac trees and bushes. My rabbits have chewed on grape leaves, but they leave the vines alone. Apple wood is by far their favorite. I have offered maple, but my rabbits won\'t chew it. Dead wood (branches) should be avoided because it can contain mold. When I trim a tree, I usually cut branches in about 6\" pieces and wash them and wrap them and put them in the freezer to keep them fresh. My rabbits like to eat the bark and they like to play with the sticks by tossing them around and rearranging them in their hutch.

As for the height of the play yard, taller then 24\" would be better, because if you are giving them 16\' to 32\' to run in, they will run and jump and spin in the air, providing they are young and energetic enough to do so, and so more height is needed.

Harplady:

Thanks for the additional advice. I think I\'ll go out today & prune off a few apple branches and see if Manny & Papi seem especially interested. Papi is a bit shy, but once she decides she likes something, her bashfulness vanishes. Two bunny friends at work advised that their rabbits love Animal Crackers. At first Papi didn\'t seem interested, but now she is eager for hers when the buns go back in the hutch after playtime.

I can\'t believe how much fun I\'m having with these rabbits! I\'ve been wanting rabbits for years, strictly for gardening purposes....their droppings are supposed to make great fertilizer which doesn\'t need composting before use. I fully expected to have mindless little pooping machines that would spend their lives in a hutch. Since reading about their need for outdoor exercise, I\'ve begun a daily after-work routine of spending an hour or two sitting by their x-pen reading while watching them cavort about & enjoy the chance to graze. So much for the shy, timid creatures I expected...these guys are as curious as cats & as playful as puppies.

I now have a new dilemma to resolve. When I adopted these bunnies from the SPCA, I was told they were male & female, \"but he\'s really young\". I decided to get Manny neutered since I want 2 bunnies, not 50! Within a few hours of moving in together, though, the two of them were \"making like rabbits\". Manny was castrated 10 days after I adopted him. After doing a lot of reading, I decided to get Papi spayed as well. Unfortunately, the vet can\'t do her surgery until 10/26. Yesterday I picked Papi up for the first time in several days (I was away for the weekend, and several days of rain cancelled our outdoor playtime). I noticed that she\'s noticeably rounder and heavier than she had been. Yep, I suspect she\'s preggers (I know, I know, I shouldn\'t have left them caged up together before his surgery!). The vet told me he would spay her even if she\'s pregnant if I don\'t care. My dilemma now is that I\'m debating if I might not want more bunnies after all! Guess I\'ll have to got back to those reference books & read the chapter on pregnancy & babies (I skipped those since I had NO plans to breed rabbits). If I DO decide to let Papi have a litter & choose to keep the babies (all of whom would be de-sexed as early as possible!), how many additional hutches would I need? I know the Daddy has to be kept away from the babies while they\'re little. My understanding is that 2 sisters make good hutchmates. Can more than 2 rabbits share a home (given enough room)? What about brother & sister? If I have a large outdoor exercise area, how many rabbits can play together without fights breaking out...or are fights only common with hormone-driven rabbits? Advice?

I know alot about dog, cat & even horse behavior, but Rabbits are a whole new pet for me... the novelty is probably part of why they\'re such fun!

How long has it been since Manny and Papi were \"making like rabbits\"? It takes about 31 days from breeding to the time the doe kindles. She should have a nest box in place by day 28. I like to put a layer of shavings in the bottom and grass hay on top of that, which the doe likes to use to mix with the fur she pulls.

What I do when I first wean my bunnies (at 5 weeks), is move them all to one cage. At 8 weeks, I segregate them, but you shouldn\'t have to worry about accidental breeding until over 3 months. (Small breed rabbits tend to mature sooner than medium to large breeds.) Yes, sisters tend to get along better than brothers, but every rabbit has their own personality and some are more agressive than others. I have had sisters fight something awful, so you just need to watch closely how everyone is getting along. Hormones do have a lot to do with how agressive a rabbit will be with another.

Good luck.

Charlcie Gill
Zodiac Rabbitry
Astoria, OR
http://www.zodiacsatins.com

I only have two rabbits and have no experience on keeping rabbits in a group, but check out this study on rabbits in a group setting and maybe it will help you a bit.

http://www.awionline.org/pubs/cq02/Cq-rabbits.html

Anyone who has rabbits that like to be in high places, check out the rabbits on the wall in figure 3.

I think personally I would want to have a hutch for each rabbit. They do like to play together and have social interaction, but they also like to have thier own space to retreat to when they aren\'t feeling social. For a situation like yours, what might be good is to build each bunny a small hutch, with doors that open into a sort of community area. Leave each rabbit in it\'s own hutch for a week or so exclusively until they all know their own territories. Then let them all out into the large area to play together, either under your supervision only, or all the time if you know they will get along ok. Just a suggestion, it just sounds like a great opportunity for the rabbits to have a lot of fun, and an oppurtunity for you to learn lots about bunny behavior, LOL.

Thanks for the comments about how to handle additional rabbits. I\'ve decided that I\'m not ready for more than two yet, so Papi will be spayed tomorrow. I\'m not even sure if she\'s pregnant, she doesn\'t seem to be getting noticeably bigger. Maybe someday I\'ll get more bunnies, but I don\'t think I\'ll have any problem finding additional ones when that time comes.