I agree that hrs has changed their ways a little bit. They are mostly geared towards adoption lately, and not as anti-breeder as they used to be.
Actually i beg to differ on the pet thing involving hrs. Back in the 80\'s I remember ARBA publishing a thing where they said that they have worked to get animals off the food table, and promoted them more as pets. i wouldnt really blame hrs or the spcas, or arba. the fault lies with the pet industry exploiting rabbits, and other pet animals to an uneducated public. There\'s too many people in the pet industry, breeding them for all the wrong reasons, to sell to places like petstores. And the public will impulse buy whether they know how to care for the animal or not. Now albeit im not comepletly against petstores. I like the ones that take responsibility and educate their buyers about their animals. But most that Ive run into around here dont. save for one thats not even a petstore. Its tsc tractor supply. They were impressive when they handled chicks, ducks, and bunnies this spring.
We do have the right to breed our animals as we please. But we must take responsibility for those animals to properly care for them. And help educate petstores, buyers, excetra. Now you did say over on RO that the people owning the rabbits had a nieghbor complaint on them right? Well if that was the case then AC were in their wrights. If thats not the case, then there was no reason for them to stop at all.
As an outdoor rabbit owner, my problem with the HRS is that at times when I have met some of these people, I have been treated like an abuser. The members I have met see things only THEIR way, and refuse try to understand anyone else\'s perspective. They hit me with a lot of propaganda telling me how dangerous it is for my rabbits to be outside, but if I try to tell them how outdoor owners can take steps to prevent such problems, their answer to that is that they have no interest in outdoor rabbits. I think there is a lot of good things about the HRS and the work that they do, but I am afraid I have seen mostly the ugly side. I think you are right that the public is uneducated, but how does one go about educating the public? The HRS has educated the public by telling people that if you don\'t do things the HRS way, there is something wrong with you, and I think that is a pretty ignorant stance.
[quote=harplady]
Ive ran into those types too. Those are usually the ones that are all fanatic, and higher up in the society. But the ones lower down the line, that do work for some shelters that take in rabbits are pretty decent. They\'ll(or at least the ones I personally know)will suggest that you keep your animals a certain way. But ive never seen them force anyone to do it, or jumped at them about it.
I think the penalty on any animal abuse should be JAIL TIME, WITH A LARGE DOLLAR AMOUNT. Money is a motivater--hit the abuser where it hurts--IN THEIR POCKET. Setting a Huge fine might make people alittle more responsible with the animals. However--once an abuser--always an abuser! There is something wrong in their head and sometimes I wonder if it can ever be changed!!
And reguardless of whether someone makes a complaint against you or not, no one has the right to come poking around your property without a search warrant. Never let anyone make you believe that they don\'t need one which is what alot of these investigators do. They have no right to be there unless a judge finds sufficient cause to give them a warrant. And don\'t fall into the false belief that just because you keep your drop pans clean and your rabbits fed and watered, that these people will see you as good and responsible. You are a breeder or a hoarder if you have many. Do not let them near your animals without authorization. I think there are many people out there from all walks of life that are responsible for the pet problems in this country. Mostly it comes down to supply and demand. If no one buys their puppies, kittens, bunnies, guinea pigs, ect, the pet stores will stop supplying them. As long as the general public remains ignorant, there will always be a market for pets. That is where I think alot of the rescue leagues in our area have done a good job. You can walk into one of their facilities and put a pet on \'lay away\' but you have to wait a minimum of 3 days before you can walk out with it. There is even 2 places in our state that I know of that will not allow you to walk out the door with a pet until it has been spayed or neutered. They no longer take your word for it that you will get it done by a certain time. So if you want a kitten that is 6 weeks old, fine but you can\'t take it home until it is old enough to have been altered. It really takes someone committed to an animal to wait for it. While I am sure that they loose alot of buisness in that way because the general public does not like to wait, the animals that do find homes are the very lucky ones. As far as rabbits go, I take a very hard line towards them. The ones that are fortunate enough to find a responsible home for their entire lives, are truly lucky. And I do believe that every life has the right to a good existance reguardless of whether they were born to be a show rabbit, pet rabbit, meat rabbit or whatever. Unfortunately for rabbits, they are also a dual purpose animal. If there isn\'t a show herd for them to live in, a commercial herd for them to live in, or a good pet home for them to live in - then there is always the dinner table. There are many homeless people across this nation and many homeless rabbits that will never find a place - as sad as that is. It seems a simple solution to me to just feed the homeless. I know the pet community at large just about faint whenever I say this but it just seems a terrible waste of resources all the way around for these organizations to use up so much money, time, and space to rescue rabbits that no one really wants and could just as easily serve a purpose and feed a hungry family. Better than starving to death while living in filth with someone who promised to love and care for them forever. I would never think this about dogs and cats but rabbits are just differant. Not every one was meant to be a pet in someone\'s home - sad as that may be. And for all of you that come running when there is one of these seizures of animals and you rescue \'just one more\', how long before someone turns you in because you have a couple of more rabbits than they feel a \'normal\' person should have. The rescuers feed the problem, the rescue organizations feed the problem, the rescuees feed the problem, and the general public buys into it all. Save alot of time and money and just feed the hungry. Climbing down into my bomb shelter now.
Austin, that is a good point. But, alot of shelter rabbits were bred as pet rabbits. Not for the dinner table. Those are peoples pets that got thereone way or another by being seized from crappy conditions. or dumped by someone who didnt have time for the animal, or just didn\'t want the burden anymore.
I have seen a better side to some rescues. So not all are out to get everyone. The ones around here are more interested in finding homes for the animals, then they are going after people on them. They screenpeople like cazy. Young animals are put out on a spay/neuter contract. When you spay or neuter the animal when its old enough, the shelter refunds your money. There\'s a shelter up here that takes in rabbits. I\'m told they spend at least $150 on vet bills, and spaying and nuetering per animal. But adopt out the rabbits for $45 each. So theres no profit there by far.
I agree that rabbits can be used as a food source. But it shouldn\'t be left up to the shelters to determine that. They are just there to take in the animal being dumped. They see them as pets, not a food source. So really if pet owners and some breeders(the bad ones), wanted to take some responsibility, they should be shipping the bun off as dinner, instead. Unfortunately alot don\'t see things that way. Although most shelters and rescues up here would rather see rabbits go as food, rather then see the hundreds of them dumped on them every year. They really can\'t food out the animals because of the pet prospect, state laws, and the euthanasia methods.
Me, I\'d rather sell to a food outlet then let a rabbit go to petstore, or as a pet. But if someone wants a pet they\'d better be prepared to be screeened, care for the animal, and speuter it. Although Im fine with anyone wanting one as a breeder, show, or a 4-h project.
I\'m sorry but when it comes right down to it, reguardless of who raised the rabbit or the intent for which it was brought into the world, they can still be a valuable food source for humans or raptors or whatever. It is too bad that pet owners are irresponsible but pets or no pets, they are still rabbits and if they are also a burden to the organizations that seize them or insist on re-homing them, there are other options. I raise rabbits strictly for show but anyone who raises show rabbits knows that not every baby will make it onto the show tables for whatever reason. While I hope that they will find good pet homes, I also know that it is unrealistic to expect that for every rabbit. It would also be unwise herd managment for me to keep every rabbit I breed just because it was bred to be a show rabbit. If there isn\'t a pet home available, it goes as a food source for someone or something. Likewise, just because a rabbit was raised to be a pet, if the place just isn\'t there for it, there are other options. Just as with the commercial meat rabbit that goes to a pet home just because that person wanted a big rabbit vs a little pet rabbit. In the end, rabbits are rabbits are rabbits. If the world is over populated with them, as I have said, there are other options. A sad end for someone\'s loving pet but that is life.
The shelter where I live spays/neuters animals at 6 weeks of age and dogs, cats, and rabbits don\'t leave the shelter without being altered. As a pet owner, I don\'t like the idea of eating rabbits, but I know the value of using rabbits as a meat sourse. I have a cat with allergies and rabbit is the sourse of protein in his perscription diet, and I have heard that rabbit farming has saved some people in third world countries from starvation.
The problem I see in the rabbit world when people don\'t respect each other\'s boundries. When the HRS goes into shelters to do their volunteer work, they are crossing boundries and they should be respectful of the people who come into the shelters. They have plenty to say about the outdoor rabbits that come through the door, but in the past year they have taken over 190 rabbit from inside of just 2 homes in MN! It just makes me wonder what else is hidding behind closed doors! Why do they want everyone to keep their rabbits inside? Aren\'t they multiplying fast enough. (just a little attempt at humor)
Shelters in our area do more than move animals, they also educate. They have \"parenting classes\" for the animals they adopt out. As long as they have taken on the job of educating the public, I think it only make sense to give out information that will help people take care of their animals in a way that works for them. They get house rabbits in all the time with the note, \"responcibility too much,\" and then there are all the house pets that people release this time of year, many of them rabbits. Yet the problem that is most exploited is one of the neglect of outdoor rabbits. I think someone needs to take another look at the problems in the rabbit world and quit blaming everything on outdoor rabbit owners and breeders. It would sure be nice if there was and organization around that had the best interest of all rabbits in mind. England has the Rabbit Welfare Association (
http://www.houserabbit.co.uk) but we have nothing that even comes close to it. I have to admit I have no association with the RWA and so I really don\'t know how they are to deal with. I do know that they refuse to take a stand against breeders, and give outdoor rabbit owners information to help them do a better job.
[quote=harplady]
I don\'t agree with the pet rabbit going as food thing either. Even though i raise rabbits, and alot go for food, I beleive that if its bred for a pet. Then thats what its meant to be no matter what. If its bred and outletted for food, then it should be used as food. pet owners do get offended when they find out a rabbit is used as dinner. But it shouldn\'t be held against the breeder. But it also shouldn\'t be held against pet owners, and shelters just because they see rabbits differrently then we do. I think I would be a little disturbed myself if a local shelter was fooding out their animals. Because alot of those animals were someones cherished pet at one time. So its not their fault they ended up there. And you really can\'t use a euthanized rabbit as a food source for anything because of the euthanazia fliud. Although the shelters around here euthanize more then 800 rabbits per year, they do adopt out quite a few more to responsible pet homes. Or they keep what they can, and move the rest into local rescues. Most are done on spay/neuter contracts.
I have a belief that if rescues, pet owners, and breeders would stop going at each others throats, the world would be a much better place. More responsibility would be taken when animals are concerned. And it might help solve the pet population problems. Those are just my views on it anyhow. Not all rescues are bad. In fact if you look around, theres plenty of rescue workers that are willing to have a working relationship with a breeder without both sides going at it like rabid wolves. Ive done some small private rescue on the side myslef, and placed a bun or two in very good pet homes. I think if they were ever to decide to \'eat\' their pet, i would be very angry with them. theres a mini rex I rescued once. Because someone dumped him off in the gas station parking lot down the road a few years back. I gave him to a good friend of mine that works in rescue. He\'s fat, spioled, loved, neutered, and has a very good home. In fact he bonded with one of their other rabbits. Ive kept in touch with them too. And have learned alot from the rescue side of things thats made me a more responsible, and better breeder.
I happen to know the lady who had her rabbits taken away in MN(they keep exagerating the number also) and her and her husband are very nice people but she was having health problems and surgeries and unable to take of the rabbits herself so her husband was taking care of them for her but they were well fed and well taken care of, most were goin through a molt so it may have looked as though they hadn`t been brushed but they were well cared for. She said a self-employed animal control guy \"just happened\" to see cages sittin in the yard and looked around and took all the rabbits away she was really upset about this as she had paid a lot for good quality show stock(she had bought one from me too) and the Lionheads were especially expensive and they were just at a piont where they had good stock and could start breeding some but the animal control guy wouldn`t listen. This \"animal-control\" guy told her it was against the law for her to have the rabbits in her house and that they were exotic animals but when she checked into this with the county she was told exotic animals were squirrels, ferrets, snakes, sugar gliders, pygmy goats, hedge hots or potbelly pigs. Her husband has just moved cages around and moved some rabbits into the garage while the cages were being cleaned but the animal control guy made it sounds as though they were out in the heat all day. They did allow her husband(the county said she was too upset over it and wouldn`t allow her near them) to pick out 10 rabbits to keep which are now at his co-worker`s farm his co-worker said she`d take all of them but the guy wouldn`t let her. Her and her husband were forced out of their home and are now living in a hotel until they can find a nice home out in the country, they were told they could never have rabbits again. Just thought you should know her side of the story since everyone already knows the exaggerated animal control guy and HRS`s side. I noticed that the buck I sold her wasn`t online with the rest of him, makes me sad wondering what could`ve happened to him(I know she took good care of him she really cared about her rabbits, she was not an irresponsible breeder!) since he was a very nice buck and show quality and many others of hers were grand champions or out of grand champion lines. And BTW they were already very low on money with her not being able to work because of surgery and now that they are forced to move and live in a hotel they are even worse for money I believe all these dumb \"animal-control\" people want is money, she was not an animal abuser or anything like that! But of course the HRS wants you to believe that so you`ll support them.